--- title: Qwen3.8 Max: Alibaba's 2.4 trillion parameter... description: Alibaba's Qwen team has announced Qwen3.8 Max, a 2.4 trillion parameter mixture-of-experts model positioned as frontier-competitive. A preview is live but open... canonical: https://daily.dev/posts/qwen3-8-max-alibaba-s-2-4-trillion-parameter-open-weight-model-benchmarked-0pqptx1df twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:site: @dailydotdev og:type: website og:site_name: daily.dev og:title: Qwen3.8 Max: Alibaba's 2.4 trillion parameter open-weight model benchmarked | daily.dev og:description: Alibaba's Qwen team has announced Qwen3.8 Max, a 2.4 trillion parameter mixture-of-experts model positioned as frontier-competitive. A preview is live but open... og:url: https://daily.dev/posts/qwen3-8-max-alibaba-s-2-4-trillion-parameter-open-weight-model-benchmarked-0pqptx1df og:image: https://api.daily.dev/og/posts/0pqptX1DF.png og:image:alt: Qwen3.8 Max: Alibaba's 2.4 trillion parameter open-weight model benchmarked og:image:width: 1200 og:image:height: 630 og:locale: en --- > ## Documentation Index > Fetch the complete documentation index at: https://daily.dev/llms.txt > Use this file to discover all available pages before exploring further. # Qwen3.8 Max: Alibaba's 2.4 trillion parameter open-weight model benchmarked **[Collections](https://daily.dev/sources/collections)** · 3 min read · 57 upvotes · 9 comments ## Summary Alibaba's Qwen team has announced Qwen3.8 Max, a 2.4 trillion parameter mixture-of-experts model positioned as frontier-competitive. A preview is live but open weights aren't released yet. Across 8 benchmark tasks including 3D rendering, SVG generation, math reasoning, and agentic workflows, it scored 65/80 (81.25%), placing second behind Fable 5 and ahead of Claude Opus 4. It achieved perfect scores on three tasks. A notable limitation is inconsistent behavior during long-running agentic sessions, particularly with Claude Code. The open weights release is confirmed but pending. ## Content Alibaba has previewed Qwen 3.8 Max, a 2.4 trillion parameter model it's calling second only to Anthropic's Fable 5. The model is available now through Alibaba's Token Plan, Qoder, QoderWork, and Qwen Chat. Open weights are confirmed but no release date or license terms have been given. ## The claim vs. the evidence The announcement landed a few days after rival Moonshot released Kimi K3 — complete with a benchmark table, pricing, and a hard open-weight date of July 27. Alibaba's launch, by contrast, was a single post on X with no benchmark scores, no model card, and no architecture details. AI analyst Julien Simon has pointed out the obvious problem: an undated, unverifiable ranking claim functions more as a narrative play than a model launch. There's also a structural awkwardness here — Alibaba holds roughly a 36% stake in Moonshot, so publishing benchmarks that directly compare the two would be uncomfortable either way. That said, Qwen's two previous flagships shipped API-only, quietly breaking the lab's open-weight tradition. Promising open weights for 3.8 Max is at least a signal they're aware of the optics. ## Independent testing One detailed third-party evaluation tested Qwen 3.8 Max across eight tasks: 3D rendering, SVG generation, math reasoning, and agentic workflows. It scored 65/80 (81.25%), placing second overall — behind Fable 5 and ahead of Claude Opus 4. It got perfect scores on a bow-and-arrow game, a hard permutation problem, and a long-horizon fine-tuning task. Separately, AI/ML API ran a Three.js benchmark where each model was given a single file containing a war galley, a Trojan horse, and a Greek war helmet, then asked to build three scenes in one shot. Qwen 3.8 Max finished considerably faster than the other models with no visible drop in output quality. The one consistent weakness flagged in early testing was unreliable behavior during long agentic sessions in Claude Code. A subsequent update appears to have addressed this, along with improvements to front-end code generation and tool calling reliability. ## Pricing and access The model is currently available at 10% of standard pricing on Alibaba's Token Plan. On Qoder, a 90% discount drops the billing coefficient to 0.05x, and off-peak hours (10pm–8am Singapore time) reduce it further to 0.01x — roughly 50x more usage for the same spend. A 14-day pro trial with 300 credits is also available. Qoder also quietly launched a mystery model called "Cantus" priced at 3.2x the standard billing coefficient — about six times more expensive than Qwen 3.8 Max at standard rates — with no benchmarks or lab attribution. Speculation ranges from an unreleased Qwen Ultra variant to a frontier model from another lab being tested under a codename. Qwen 3.8 Max is now free on Qwen Studio, though the free tier for Qwen Code CLI hosted inference has been discontinued. ## What's still missing The open weights. Until those ship, the "second only to Fable 5" claim stays unverifiable. The model's predecessor, Qwen3.7-Max, was the highest-ranked Chinese model on ECI, so a 2.4T successor being competitive at the frontier isn't implausible — but implausible and unverified are different problems. ## Questions this post answers ### How does Qwen 3.8 Max compare to Claude Opus 4 and other top models in benchmarks? An independent third-party evaluation across eight tasks (3D rendering, SVG generation, math reasoning, agentic workflows) scored Qwen 3.8 Max 65 out of 80 (81.25%), placing it second overall behind Anthropic's Fable 5 and ahead of Claude Opus 4. It achieved perfect scores on a bow-and-arrow game, a hard permutation problem, and a long-horizon fine-tuning task. _Tracking how new models like qwen 3.8 max stack up against claude opus 4 gets easier with daily.dev._ ### Are the open weights for Qwen 3.8 Max available yet? No, open weights have not shipped yet, only confirmed as planned, with no release date or license terms given. Until the weights are released, Alibaba's claim that Qwen 3.8 Max ranks second only to Anthropic's Fable 5 remains unverifiable, unlike rival Moonshot's Kimi K3, which launched with benchmarks, pricing, and a hard open-weight date of July 27. _Developers waiting on open-weight releases like qwen 3.8 max can follow the story as it develops on daily.dev._ ### What discounts are available for using Qwen 3.8 Max on Qoder? Qoder offers a 90% discount dropping the billing coefficient to 0.05x, and during off-peak hours (10pm to 8am Singapore time) it drops further to 0.01x, giving roughly 50 times more usage for the same spend. A 14-day pro trial with 300 credits is also available, and standard pricing on Alibaba's Token Plan runs at 10% of normal rates. _Comparing model pricing tricks like qwen 3.8 max's off-peak discounts helps teams budget smarter, a task daily.dev supports._ ## Community discussion Top comments from developers on daily.dev. **@hidden\_rahatkhan** · 6 upvotes > Even selling my two kidneys won't be enough to run it locally, I guess! **@geekluffy** · 2 upvotes > Beating Claude Opus 4 on benchmarks as an open weight model is wild but the note on inconsistent performance during long claude code sessions shows once again that multi turn agentic stability is the real benchmark developers actually care about **@amizzo** · 0 upvotes > Closed models will always be superior - just logically. There's no reason to open source something that's superior. The second a developed model becomes superior, they'll close it. Such is capitalism. **@simos** · 0 upvotes > What is seems to me with all those criticism over chinese models is that Americans keep to say it is not safe/legit/propaganda/propaganda/ etc etc to save a really big business for them. This is not safe, not an open weight model, baby!!! ## Similar posts on daily.dev - [Qwen 3.8 Released : Better than Kimi K3?](https://daily.dev/posts/qwen-3-8-released-better-than-kimi-k3--gsoqcloby) · Medium · 1 upvotes · 0 comments --- Tags: [#ai](https://daily.dev/tags/ai), [#llm](https://daily.dev/tags/llm), [#qwen](https://daily.dev/tags/qwen), [#alibaba](https://daily.dev/tags/alibaba), [#mixture-of-experts](https://daily.dev/tags/mixture-of-experts) [View this post on daily.dev](https://daily.dev/posts/qwen3-8-max-alibaba-s-2-4-trillion-parameter-open-weight-model-benchmarked-0pqptx1df) ```json {"@context":"https://schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Organization","@id":"https://daily.dev/#organization","name":"daily.dev","url":"https://daily.dev","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https://daily.dev/apple-touch-icon.png","width":180,"height":180},"sameAs":["https://twitter.com/dailydotdev","https://github.com/dailydotdev","https://www.linkedin.com/company/daily-dev-ltd"]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https://daily.dev/#website","url":"https://daily.dev","name":"daily.dev","publisher":{"@id":"https://daily.dev/#organization"},"potentialAction":{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https://daily.dev/search?q={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}}]} {"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"TechArticle","headline":"Qwen3.8 Max: Alibaba's 2.4 trillion parameter open-weight model benchmarked","url":"https://daily.dev/posts/qwen3-8-max-alibaba-s-2-4-trillion-parameter-open-weight-model-benchmarked-0pqptx1df","mainEntityOfPage":{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https://daily.dev/posts/qwen3-8-max-alibaba-s-2-4-trillion-parameter-open-weight-model-benchmarked-0pqptx1df"},"datePublished":"2026-07-19T12:37:43.318Z","dateModified":"2026-09-13T19:37:48.681Z","description":"Alibaba's Qwen team has announced Qwen3.8 Max, a 2.4 trillion parameter mixture-of-experts model positioned as frontier-competitive. 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There’s no reason to open source something that’s superior. The second a developed model becomes superior, they’ll close it. Such is capitalism.","datePublished":"2026-07-20T21:25:54.074Z","url":"https://daily.dev/posts/0pqptX1DF#c-sYBNUO10N","author":{"@type":"Person","name":"Anthony Izzo","url":"https://daily.dev/amizzo","image":"https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a/ACg8ocI3KpxrCJphZmqCBYWzrlZz0yUJS3pQF3RYarylAe8SP_G6_KUCoQ=s96-c"}},{"@type":"Comment","text":"What is seems to me with all those criticism over chinese models is that Americans keep to say it is not safe/legit/propaganda/propaganda/ etc etc to save a really big business for them. This is not safe, not an open weight model, baby!!!","datePublished":"2026-07-23T14:08:02.201Z","url":"https://daily.dev/posts/0pqptX1DF#c-Eiid88P8n","author":{"@type":"Person","name":"Simo's","url":"https://daily.dev/simos","image":"https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a/AEdFTp7x7-eBPpw0hD5Wb7OiEwWMbKI3dMS62BANE0irnw=s96-c"}}]} {"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"FAQPage","@id":"https://daily.dev/posts/qwen3-8-max-alibaba-s-2-4-trillion-parameter-open-weight-model-benchmarked-0pqptx1df#faq","mainEntity":[{"@type":"Question","name":"How does Qwen 3.8 Max compare to Claude Opus 4 and other top models in benchmarks?","acceptedAnswer":{"@type":"Answer","text":"An independent third-party evaluation across eight tasks (3D rendering, SVG generation, math reasoning, agentic workflows) scored Qwen 3.8 Max 65 out of 80 (81.25%), placing it second overall behind Anthropic's Fable 5 and ahead of Claude Opus 4. It achieved perfect scores on a bow-and-arrow game, a hard permutation problem, and a long-horizon fine-tuning task. Tracking how new models like qwen 3.8 max stack up against claude opus 4 gets easier with daily.dev."}},{"@type":"Question","name":"Are the open weights for Qwen 3.8 Max available yet?","acceptedAnswer":{"@type":"Answer","text":"No, open weights have not shipped yet, only confirmed as planned, with no release date or license terms given. Until the weights are released, Alibaba's claim that Qwen 3.8 Max ranks second only to Anthropic's Fable 5 remains unverifiable, unlike rival Moonshot's Kimi K3, which launched with benchmarks, pricing, and a hard open-weight date of July 27. 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